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  Anonymous
  Wednesday May 19th 2021
  15 Replies
  1.3K ​​Visits
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Hello everybody

I am trying to find out how much I can sell on the market because, having no contact with other designers in the building, I have no idea.

I therefore appeal to the other designers of this site to have an overview of what is being done. Do not hesitate to give me your position, your salary, and your number of hours / week, it would be interesting to discuss it!

For my part, I have been a draftsman in industrial building project management for 4 years. I master Revit and carry out projects of around 5m € with it, I also render videos and photos under Lumion to present projects to clients. I am the only draftsman in my company so I am quite versatile, I also participate in the drafting of the building permit documents.

I am at € 29 gross per year for 300h / week.


Thank you !
there are about 4 months
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#16495
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Hello,

if ever it may interest you or someone else here are the minimum salaries for a designer in Geneva (42,5h / week)
0-3 years experience € 48 / year - gross
3 years of experience € 55 / year - gross
6 years of experience € 62 / year - gross

(source collective agreement for engineering offices in Geneva)
there are about 4 months
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#16496
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Hello,

Despite the technical skills and experience required for the BIM modeler mission, in reality salaries do not really change from a CAD designer position to that of a BIM modeler.
In addition to this sad fact that we can understand given the investments of employers in software, hardware and training, you will find below the salary table as presented by LEMONITEUR for the position of designer in France:
https://emploi.batiactu.com/salaire-BTP-dessinateur-projeteur-80.html

Note that age, experience, geography, and company size can vary these numbers significantly.

This is therefore a big average to be taken with a grain of salt.

Christophe Fortineau
Consultant, trainer and AMO BIM
there are about 4 months
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#16497
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This other site claims that a BIM modeler has a salary between 30 and 42k € per year, i.e. between 2500 € and 3500 € monthly ...

Link to the site in question

I remind you that a BIM design tool such as Tekla, Allplan, Archicad, Vectoworks or Revit requires a BIM Modeler and not a designer draftsman dedicated to traditional CAD design.
there are about 4 months
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#16498
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Hello Armand,

Personally, I have exactly the same profile as you, same salary, same projects, same hours. I have the impression that being versatile is not necessarily rewarding because companies prefer specialized designers / modelers (in my humble opinion)

Glad the topic was brought up, I follow the conversation.

cordially
there are about 3 months
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#16500
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Thank you all for your feedback.

And yes Anthony it's hard to judge yourself. In fact, I have the impression that it is also the profession of designer designer that has its limits, we will never have the responsibilities or the challenges that are worth a very high salary while a good designer and renderings bring a lot to the project implementation. I'm asking for a raise tomorrow, I'll keep you posted.
there are about 3 months
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#16509
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Hello Armand Plihon,

I take the liberty of writing to you, because your post is interesting on several points. You talk about salary and it is taboo in France (unfortunately) and I agree with some professional comrades who indeed this first can vary quite significantly, personally I was at 40k € with 16 years of experience as a structural designer and I I have a double competence in project management: it is more in other BE but that suited me. With regard to Swiss wages, reduced to 35 hours, this gives (see post above): € 40300; € 45300 and € 51100. It's hard to get a real idea, but it's still tempting for cross-border workers.

On the other hand, you do not specify which is your dominant specialty (HVAC, ELEC, STR, etc ...), in 2D, in BIM, ect ... and that also varies the salaries?

I started in a company 2 months ago as a freelance and the prices are also very variable, depending on the clients, the projects, the time to spend (it's the hardest to estimate), the urgently, in 2D or BIM, but there are still recurring prices that emerge. You can easily start at 40 € / h (320 € / day (8h daily)) with a large average of 50-55 € / h (400-440 € / day) and not really maximum.

Do not hesitate to contact me if it can help you (LinkedIn)
Cyril Parsy
Bimanagement
there are about 3 months
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#16510
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Hello,
Not much to add because the source below already posted above ...:
https://emploi.batiactu.com/salaire-BTP-dessinateur-projeteur-80.html
Personally when I have to make a quote for a collective building type modeling with Revit,
I count 0,02 h / m2 of floor area. What do you think of my unit time?
there are about 3 months
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#16512
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Hello Vincent,

You do not specify the phase of the project, because depending on the phase, you will not have the same level of information on your deliverables.

For example, I modeled in 2020, a project (APD phase) of 36 apartments in R + 4 and a basement of approximately 8000m² in 3 days (minute engineer STR, built-in joinery included and some remarkable architectural points). Or, 350m² / h approx.

If we convert your unit time into m² / h, you produce 50m² / h, or 160h to make 8000m². So I think 0.02h / m² is "too slow" (sorry to be blunt). But if it works for you, so much the better !!

Sincerely
Cyril P.
there are about 3 months
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#16513
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Bonjour.
Great this feedback! If I understand :
- Your unit time = 0.003 h / m², because it's your job, so I guess you must have the right templates that go well ...
- My unit time for training = 0.02 h / m², because I created this average unit time to estimate modeling times starting from the basic Revit templates and those to try to estimate the time that will take after 1 week and half of adult training in professional retraining that I train to become BIM modeleur Révit with other colleagues.
- Basically your feedback concerns the modeling of a project of this type:
https://plan-bim-2022.fr/actions/demonstrateur-olympi/ on the other hand 3 day is rather
for: https://plan-bim-2022.fr/actions/dce-numerique-bim/maquette-structure/
or for : https://plan-bim-2022.fr/actions/dce-numerique-bim/maquette-architecte/
Because personally, in modeling model structure of this type, I am rather at 0.005 h / m² ...
there are about 3 months
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#16514
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You do not specify the phase of the project, because depending on the phase, you will not have the same level of information on your deliverables.


Absolutely Cyril,

Design / production time ratio = €

The role of the BIM modeler within the MOE group is the first element to be informed and probably before the project phase.
If the BIM design + collaboration induces a synthesis, it is the agent who vouches for all traditional and / or BIM deliverables. The distribution of fees within the group is not equal between the different design actors. One can also imagine that the modeling of a BIM structure "from scratch" or from a basic model transmitted by the agent is not comparable in terms of time to spend and therefore price per m2.

Separate design time from production time

Losing your work and then having to reproduce it makes it possible to evaluate or even dissociate the design time from the production time: you produce considerably faster when you already know THE solution. The agent has the least good design / production time ratio because he offers design support to all the other members of the consortium and vouches for it.

Specific example; that of the design of an aquatic complex which switches the fees towards the fluid BET to the point of significantly modifying the design / production time ratio and therefore the € / m2 price of the BIM model.


Very interesting subject in any case thank you Armand!
there are about 3 months
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#16515
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The distribution of fees within the group is not equal between the different design actors.


+1

Often it is 65% agent for 35% co-contractors.
We imagine the agent alone on his envelope and all the BEs on 35% of the fees .... BIM or not
Christophe Fortineau rightly this distribution is not a coincidence and represents a reality of the time spent without comparison with the volume of production.

Yo
there are about 3 months
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#16516
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For info, my basic job being Methods Technician:
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureau_des_m%C3%A9thodes
in the construction industry in a structural work company:
http://www.bouygues-batiment-nord-est.fr/
Suddenly I ask myself the question if it exists or it will exist one day
a kit for BIM managers who will help them write the schedules
of studies with coherent unit times according to the different cases?
Personally, the 1st unit time that will interest me will be the one concerning
the modeling of an Archi model of an existing heritage to
then be able to use it as in this video:
http://www.ffbim.fr/le-bim-simplification-travail-collaboratif
And to go further, maybe a lean expert can help us:
https://lafourmibatisseuse.com/lean-pour-ameliorer-le-bim/
there are about 2 months
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#16658
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Bonjour.
Does one or one of you have in these archives, unit times for modeling digital BIM models?
History of completing my personal archives: Modeling Model Structure of a project of the type like the one below with Révit => 0.006 h / m²
Modeling Archi model of a project of the type like the one below with Révit => 0.009 h / m²
Modeling MEP model (plumbing: supply and evacuation) => ??? h / m²
Modeling MEP model (electricity) => ??? h / m²
Modeling MEP model (CVC) => ??? h / m²
All with the aim of trying to create a standard study schedule to pass a DCE without BIM models into DCE with BIM models.
Thank you in advance for the possible sharing of your respective experiences! @ +.
there are about 1 months
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#16843
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Bonjour.
Great this feedback! If I understand :
- Your unit time = 0.003 h / m², because it's your job, so I guess you must have the right templates that go well ...


Yes exact, I have STRUCTURE-oriented templates for all phases of a project

- Basically your feedback concerns the modeling of a project of this type:
https://plan-bim-2022.fr/actions/demonstrateur-olympi/ on the other hand 3 day is rather
for: https://plan-bim-2022.fr/actions/dce-numerique-bim/maquette-structure/
or for : https://plan-bim-2022.fr/actions/dce-numerique-bim/maquette-architecte/
Because personally, in modeling model structure of this type, I am rather at 0.005 h / m² ...


The second link is a bit like the project I took as an example. In any case if you take 0.005h / m², it is not funny either because depending also on other factors such as the type of foundations, change of floor levels and other remarkable points of a project generate delays very quickly longer.

See you soon
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Bonjour.
On page 46 of this document, I found information on MEP modeling:
https://dumas.ccsd.cnrs.fr/dumas-02893683/document
Case to follow ...
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